118 replies to this topic

[theocd]

Source?



Based on what?

I'm British and therefore am Biased. Seriously, I think they have the best service history, are very efficent, train perhaps the hardest and I would not want to be on the receiving end of them.

I think that the best police tactical unit are LAPD SWAT, but special forces including army these are among the best - British SAS, Germany - GSG9, French GIGN, USA - FBI HRT, ,..

GIGN remain essentially a polcie unit more than a military one.

The OC-D

[917893678251]

FBI HRT is not a special force,it is a national special police force which has nothing to do with the military so I don't consider it a special force.

[hunter42]

I wouldn't say China's the best yet but i can say they're the biggest with like 800,000+ SWAT members.

Bigger doesn't mean better. It could even become a disadvantage.

Based on what?

Probably based on two things:
Firstly, other countries model their Special Forces off of the SAS
And because the training and selection process is one of the toughest in the military world.

Doesn't really make them the best though. It's impossible to conclude which SF is the best in the world, there's just no answer.

GIGN remain essentially a polcie unit more than a military one.

Am I right in thinking that GIPN the more military and SF unit?

[frankie1988]

I'm British and therefore am Biased. Seriously, I think they have the best service history, are very efficent, train perhaps the hardest and I would not want to be on the receiving end of them.



GIGN remain essentially a polcie unit more than a military one.

The OC-D

nope, you are wrong, it is a military based unit,.. GIPN is police based,..

[frankie1988]

FBI HRT is not a special force,it is a national special police force which has nothing to do with the military so I don't consider it a special force.

it has nothing to do with the police either,.. it is a federal force, and like that it is under command of Washington... like military,.. but it is a SF because they do the same things taht other SF do,...

[joachimnor]

@ Rasseru: There are sometimes you just have to wait for the right moment....

@ Frankie: There is a nice little button called edit...

[usmc123]

I think that the best police tactical unit are LAPD SWAT, but special forces including army these are among the best - British SAS, Germany - GSG9, French GIGN, USA - FBI HRT, ,..

I wouldn't call HRT a military force as they are a domestic unit. The USA has so many SOCOM units that have so many capabilities, SEALs, Green Berets (They mostly train the populace to fight), Delta, Rangers, MARSOC (Formerly Force Recon), PJ's etc. The US tends to not have one unit for everything but instead a variety of units for a variety of occasions.

Frankie the HRT is not a military/SF force. They are not apart of USSOCOM and don't (That I'm aware of, fight foreign forces)

[Commander Rasseru]

http://www.nytimes.c...ia/28china.html
They do have the permission to handle terror attacks though.It pretty much is the Emergency service unit in China.

To make things seem clearer. Being "Armed Police" means they have weapons training with some type of weapon. They may given some officers standard military battle gear. Unlikely they have 800,000 battle gear for each officer. Plus all officers are spread within China. So you might have a standard smaller number of officers in a area. Plus I didn't see a full-time, part-time, or On-call status for them. Then all may have military but not Swat training.

Your not SWAT a unless you have the training. Giving SWAT training to a very large group cost a lot and time.

I think France and England has a Police force like "Armed Police" in China. But they are not seen as Swat.

Emergency service for nation defense is apply in many police forces. In Japan the Nation Police Force is uses as last defense in a Emergency. That they may have battle equipment for some officers in the department. But they are still normal Police officers.

Unless they every one of them wear a uniform that says SWAT, SAT, SRU, etc. on them. But they are not listed as a SWAT unit any way.

[frankie1988]

I wouldn't call HRT a military force as they are a domestic unit. The USA has so many SOCOM units that have so many capabilities, SEALs, Green Berets (They mostly train the populace to fight), Delta, Rangers, MARSOC (Formerly Force Recon), PJ's etc. The US tends to not have one unit for everything but instead a variety of units for a variety of occasions.

Frankie the HRT is not a military/SF force. They are not apart of USSOCOM and don't (That I'm aware of, fight foreign forces)

I know, but it is not a part of the police either, but they conduct the same missions typse as those units I wrot,... unlike SEALS, Delta force, and Green berets, that do more army mission types and open warfare as well as missions behind enemy lines,..and scouting, gathering intelligence, and so on,... not hostige rescue, high risk warranty arrest and so on,...

[917893678251]

I think that France,Russia and the US have the best SWAT in my opinion,China received training from them.

[frankie1988]

I think that France,Russia and the US have the best SWAT in my opinion,China received training from them.

I dont think that Russians fits in top 5,... but that is my personal opinion

[hunter42]

I think that France,Russia and the US have the best SWAT in my opinion,China received training from them.

What a great contradiction. I actually lol'd
If that's the case then good luck to the Chinese.

[joachimnor]

Did they recive deathtraps as equip?

[Hoppah]

I think that France,Russia and the US have the best SWAT in my opinion,China received training from them.

Russia's special forces might be well-trained, but maybe you should read the Beslan school crisis which happened in 2004 to see how Russia deals with hostage situations.

[frankie1988]

Russia's special forces might be well-trained, but maybe you should read the Beslan school crisis which happened in 2004 to see how Russia deals with hostage situations.

Moscow theathar hostige crisis is another example of the "good" SF of Russia,... the training might be good, and look nice, but they have to prove it in missions,..

[theocd]

nope, you are wrong, it is a military based unit,.. GIPN is police based,..

Sorry to turn this into an arguement but I am currently reading in a Special Forces book that 'GIGN take its orders from the French Ministry Of Defence, but its members remain policemen, with powers of arrest...' and 'Most of the 700 or so GIGN actions have been police operations.' They even refer to the men as Officers instead of Troops and they prefer to arrest rather than kill.

Unless the book is wrong, which is possible.

The OC-D

[hunter42]

Moscow theathar hostige crisis is another example of the "good" SF of Russia,... the training might be good, and look nice, but they have to prove it in missions,..

What's concerning is that the Moscow theatre was two years before the school hostage situation, and tghey clearly didn't learn from mistakes. What's even more concerning is that the Russians considered the theatre crisis to be a great success...

I watched a special episode of Rescue 911 that was an incident from Russia (it's on youtube) where it was two people taken hostage. Basically, the Russians got fed up of negotiating and shot their way through the door, which resulted in the hostage taker and 1 hostage to be killed. That was also considered a success...

I think I'll stay away from the mean streets of Russia

[frankie1988]

Sorry to turn this into an arguement but I am currently reading in a Special Forces book that 'GIGN take its orders from the French Ministry Of Defence, but its members remain policemen, with powers of arrest...' and 'Most of the 700 or so GIGN actions have been police operations.' They even refer to the men as Officers instead of Troops and they prefer to arrest rather than kill.

Unless the book is wrong, which is possible.

The OC-D

GIGN takes order from French Ministry of Defence - so does army too,.... but they are not policeman, as the name sugest Groupe d'Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale it is a part of the military force called Gendarmerie. But yeah, GIGN units are closer to enhanced SWAT teams than to pure military units such as the British SAS. Its operators are trained to follow police regulations and include negotiation and investigation specialist Everything you read is wright, except that they are policeman,..

[frankie1988]

What's concerning is that the Moscow theatre was two years before the school hostage situation, and tghey clearly didn't learn from mistakes. What's even more concerning is that the Russians considered the theatre crisis to be a great success...

I watched a special episode of Rescue 911 that was an incident from Russia (it's on youtube) where it was two people taken hostage. Basically, the Russians got fed up of negotiating and shot their way through the door, which resulted in the hostage taker and 1 hostage to be killed. That was also considered a success...

I think I'll stay away from the mean streets of Russia

Yeah, how could it be sucsessfull missions with more than a 100 killed hostiges??
And their tactic was so wrong! The theatar was full with planted bombs, and yet they decided to use gas througthout vents,.... I dont get it, why they werent thinking if terrorist see gas that they would activet the bombs?,.. and yes it can be a sucess because most of the bombs were fake,.... but still idiotic decision to gas througt the vents,.. and then the gas used was also unknown,...
Their tactics are wrong,.... and thats why their SF sucks.

[hunter42]

And their tactic was so wrong! The theatar was full with planted bombs, and yet they decided to use gas througthout vents,.... I dont get it, why they werent thinking if terrorist see gas that they would activet the bombs?,.. and yes it can be a sucess because most of the bombs were fake,.... but still idiotic decision to gas througt the vents,.. and then the gas used was also unknown,...

I watched a documentory on the incident, and it was said that the terrorists would not set off the bombs without the go ahead from their leader, who wasn't present as the gas came in.
Most people died from either intoxication from the gas or from being crushed by the pile of bodies that the authorities put into buses since there was not enough ambulances.