64 replies to this topic

[erfd]

Man, you have no idea. I've been to Cuba. Absolute poverty. Unbelievable conditions.

http://neorepublica....re_will_not_wor

[aitor]

Something is almost everyday in the news lately, and what I'm wondering is, I've seen that many of you want a free or paid by taxes health care, like in many countries, but republicans are everyday trying to revoke the free health system (well, it's not totally free, it's paid by the taxes), I don't know if they finally get it, so who can support them, apart from rich people? Just an accident or worse, a serious illness can cost you thousands of dollars or therefore, the death (and more with today's economical crisis)...

[theocd]

Yeah, the NHS is a funny one, a Universal system in a Selective country, we're covering it in Social Policy at the moment and unfortunately we've breaked for Easter otherwise I might have had some wiser words on it

I use the term interchangelably. Regardless though I am sure your crime rates are much lower than ours sadly.

Where you live is probably much different than here, but I know for a fact Britain's police make use of a tiered system and do have armed police officers along with unarmed and that a Taser there is considered a lethal weapon where as here it is considered less-than-lethal just to show you some differences between you and us.

Also, the neighborhood watch isn't armed, this person happened to have a weapon like thousands of other Americans. We love our guns and there is absolutely no issue with that.

---
By the way, just because a dispatcher tells you to do something, you don't have to listen, dispatchers are not comissioned police officers.

All I can say to the above is 'I know'. Britain does have armed police, and some people think we need more, recently five officers got savaged by a pit bull and had to wait whilst it chewed up their collagues for a CO19 car to arrive to put the thing down. I understand how Neighbourhood Watch works, and yes, I'd definitely be armed, but the gun needed to stay seperate from the responsibility of being a Neighbourhood Watch(man/ member). I love guns too And again, the dispatcher, its advice, like when they advise to give CPR, or help husbands deliver babies 'cos the couple's stranded on the Freeway, it tends to be good advice, I'd be listening. Hell, maybe thats a piece of legislation that needs changing...

The OC-D

[erfd]

Something is almost everyday in the news lately, and what I'm wondering is, I've seen that many of you want a free or paid by taxes health care, like in many countries, but republicans are everyday trying to revoke the free health system (well, it's not totally free, it's paid by the taxes), I don't know if they finally get it, so who can support them, apart from rich people? Just an accident or worse, a serious illness can cost you thousands of dollars or therefore, the death (and more with today's economical crisis)...

There is a reason people come from all over the world for healthcare in America.

The problem is healthcare is a business here in the US. With government aid they get payed a fraction of the costs and lose tons of money. The reason the system is so advanced is it's not on government budget. Hospitals advance to be level 1 trauma centers to increase case numbers and profits that go along. They treat patients (customers) good so they come back if they ever need a hospital. If the government takes over healthcare in a capitalist society, they might as well take over Walmart because in this situations all they are are big business.

[Newfoundking]

Healthcare being a business. That's kinda senseless, don't you think?
If I can't afford food, well there are other alternatives, plus I can live off of some pretty cheap food (less than a buck) so it'll be fine, healthcare on the other hand, well that's a big thing to be looking at. I mean let's say my kidneys fail (good probability mine will) if I had to pay for my own healthcare, I'd die, because that's crazy expensive, and no HMO would insure me, AND I don't have the money to. Sure okay, many of your hospitals are advanced beyond ours, that's fine and dandy, but if the average joe can't afford to use it, well then a problem arises, and as been proven many times over, HMO's are looking for the easiest way to scam you out of whatever money they can, so if they can cancel you, they will

Using the, private is better, services are better, model, let's just privatize the fire department. Every department will be in competition to have the NEWEST biggest, best trucks, most advanced gear, everything, because they want people to pay them, but oh shit, I didn't buy my services from X station, I bought it from Y station, and look, X station was driving past my burning house, and their medallion isn't on, oh well, I'll just wait for Y. Or perhaps I'm making less than minimum wage, and can't afford to buy any services, well I'm just gonna cook, since no one is gonna put out the fire... Sounds an awful lot like pay to use healthcare. Oh, I've gotta support two children on minimum wage, where does health insurance fit? It doesn't. Canada has private hospitals as well as public, you pay to use them, and they're way up there, for the rich elite that want to use them, but for the average joe, it's nice to know you have a hospital that's on par that will save your life when you need it



And on to the original topic of gun control laws, we're harping back and forth between whether it's sensible to arm citizens, I think it's nuts to say everyone has a right to bear arms. Unless of course you mean this, I totally agree with that


By allowing laws like the shoot first law in Florida, things come up like this case, where unarmed kids are killed. I don't care if he was 30ft tall and could bench press a fire station, he didn't have a gun, and he was shot dead. Like voodoo made the point, if not everyone has a chance to carry, then you're going to be assumed unarmed at all times. America is a society that believes if you can't kill someone on command, you're not safe. I've got a gun, I'm safe, and I'm not safe without it. Well you know, you could learn something like martial arts, you can take it anywhere, you'll be in shape, and you'll be able to defend yourself without killing someone. What's wrong with that? Well I guess then you couldn't feel powerful enough to kill everyone that threatens you, and you can't be safe or powerful unless you have the ability to kill someone on command.


PS.
I know american law, I've studied it, so the first person that says I don't, you're wrong. Same with all the others
PPS
Canada allows people to own guns too, but it isn't a way of life for people, most people that own weapons are either LEO, Armed Forces, or hunters with long guns, you'll almost never see CCWs

[Voodoo_Operator]

I wish I had a pair of bear arms hanging on my wall.

[erfd]

Using the, private is better, services are better, model, let's just privatize the fire department. Every department will be in competition to have the NEWEST biggest, best trucks, most advanced gear, everything, because they want people to pay them, but oh shit, I didn't buy my services from X station, I bought it from Y station, and look, X station was driving past my burning house, and their medallion isn't on, oh well, I'll just wait for Y. Or perhaps I'm making less than minimum wage, and can't afford to buy any services, well I'm just gonna cook, since no one is gonna put out the fire... Sounds an awful lot like pay to use healthcare. Oh, I've gotta support two children on minimum wage, where does health insurance fit? It doesn't. Canada has private hospitals as well as public, you pay to use them, and they're way up there, for the rich elite that want to use them, but for the average joe, it's nice to know you have a hospital that's on par that will save your life when you need it

Believe it or not, that fire department story happens:

http://www.msnbc.msn...s/us_news-life/




Happens later on. Grants pass tells Rural Metro to leave and they have to due contracts.

[Ami89E1234]

Honestly, in the future, healthcare and insurance will be, more or less, moot issues due to extreme advances in medical (and other) technology. Read Michio Kaku's book "Physics of the Future" if you haven't - it's a good read (despite several rather corny parts).

[Newfoundking]

I like the way that the Deus Ex series looks at it. Yes medical insurance and that kinda thing are made obsolete by technology, but they are not removed, just replaced. In that game, it's with augmentations of the human body (which is becoming more of a real thing by the day mind you) but my point is they won't be removed, just replaced. Fifty years from now, we'll be complaining about technology XYZ's costs, as opposed to insurance and healthcare..

[Dakota]

There is a reason people come from all over the world for healthcare in America.

The problem is healthcare is a business here in the US. With government aid they get payed a fraction of the costs and lose tons of money. The reason the system is so advanced is it's not on government budget. Hospitals advance to be level 1 trauma centers to increase case numbers and profits that go along. They treat patients (customers) good so they come back if they ever need a hospital. If the government takes over healthcare in a capitalist society, they might as well take over Walmart because in this situations all they are are big business.

I disagree to an extent. The government would not be taking over hospitals, it wouldn't be St Johns Federal Medical Center, it would still be a privately owned and operated business. The government would just supply tax supported insurance to those who can't afford it, perhaps even getting more people out of unemployment or off of disability? Private hospitals and insurance would still exist and be utilized for all non life saving treatments.

Believe it or not, that fire department story happens:

http://www.msnbc.msn...s/us_news-life/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhD_5T4F7aw

Happens later on. Grants pass tells Rural Metro to leave and they have to due contracts.

Oh I'm well aware, that's not the only case either. There are departments out there who are fully equipped but will not fight your fire if you didn't pay your subscription fee. It's heartless.

[erfd]

I disagree to an extent. The government would not be taking over hospitals, it wouldn't be St Johns Federal Medical Center, it would still be a privately owned and operated business. The government would just supply tax supported insurance to those who can't afford it, perhaps even getting more people out of unemployment or off of disability? Private hospitals and insurance would still exist and be utilized for all non life saving treatments.


Oh I'm well aware, that's not the only case either. There are departments out there who are fully equipped but will not fight your fire if you didn't pay your subscription fee. It's heartless.

Ya, I can't believe it either to be honest. Have to draw the line between politics and reality. I would never let a house burn.…

[erfd]

I disagree to an extent. The government would not be taking over hospitals, it wouldn't be St Johns Federal Medical Center, it would still be a privately owned and operated business. The government would just supply tax supported insurance to those who can't afford it, perhaps even getting more people out of unemployment or off of disability? Private hospitals and insurance would still exist and be utilized for all non life saving treatments.


Oh I'm well aware, that's not the only case either. There are departments out there who are fully equipped but will not fight your fire if you didn't pay your subscription fee. It's heartless.

Ya, I can't believe it either to be honest. Have to draw the line between politics and reality. I would never let a house burn.…

[Unit 42]

Grants Pass have to be the worse fire department I have ever seen and I've seen some poor volly companies and they do better than these paid guys. Their station looks like a s***hole and they couldn't fight a house fire efficiently even when backup arrived. If I was the Chief from Rural Metro, I would've laughed in their faces. I mean who fights a fire with a traffic vest on and no SCBA?!

[Newfoundking]

ERFD:

This seems ridiculous now, but back in the thirties, and early, this was common practice. Firefighting was still a new thing, and people paid to have service. Obviously this was changed quick enough, probably because it just wasn't lucrative enough, who knows, but it isn't that way anymore (thank god)

[erfd]

Ya I know. I love those stories of fights over hydrants, pay or burn, etc. I know looting of houses was common to. Crazy times man.

[Dakota]

ERFD:

This seems ridiculous now, but back in the thirties, and early, this was common practice. Firefighting was still a new thing, and people paid to have service. Obviously this was changed quick enough, probably because it just wasn't lucrative enough, who knows, but it isn't that way anymore (thank god)

The practice started in England, and resulted in many fist fights on the fire ground. That's also back when they used the trumpets

[heyjoojoo]

I wish we had free healthcare like Canada......

Uh, I know many former Canadians and they detest that form of healthcare.

I don't know what's the most disgusting part in all this... the cold-blooded, execution-style murder, or the fact that this asshole is getting away with it so far... or maybe it's the part where this kind of things can happen because of ridiculous laws where everyone can become a gun-wielding vigilante?

But hey, the right to bear arms is in the constitution, right? You definitely need people to arm themselves and stand their ground like Zimmerman did. You never known when the British may try to take back their colonies again, the sneaky bastards...

I think what is most disgusting is how my fellow african american brothers have signed on with so many others who claimed that this was racially motivated. What's also shameful is that some news media outlets have tried to edit the audio to make this a racially charged incident. Additionally, that Zimmerman is likely to not get a fair trial because now of the political pressure and media coverage. And to top that off, this new black panther party making public threats but not be arrested for such behavior. And our general public seems to be duped by TV coverage and cannot be objective any longer.
That's what's disgusting.

Ergo conservative and libertarian bigots who think a gun will change any situation favorably. There's far more deadly fun things to be used... like a paintball gun that shoots balls filled with HCl.

Well, when you accuse them of being bigots is quite accusational and inflammatory. There are many democrats who believe in gun rights. I don't believe they'e bigots.

[Newfoundking]

Learn to use the edit button, next time I'm just going to delete all your posts

Yes, many people want better healthcare, but usually those are the same ones that would be able to afford pay per use healthcare. They're also the same ones complaining over how nice the newer model of their car is. It's a government service, and I think that it should be. Anyone that thinks that paying for life saving procedures is right has a slight deficiency in their head. Sure, more american hospitals are higher grade, but at least if I have a heart attack and need a transplant, I don't need to worry about having to sell everything I own so I can live.

As for the racially motivating it, I have but one thing to say. That's that racists aren't just white.

[hunter42]

I don't know how to feel about this. From my understanding, the police were going to (or did) close the case and say Mr. Zimmerman was right under the "Stand your ground" law(?)

If this is true, then I guess it's good that the media brought all this to light and a court of law can now determine the outcome of the case. But at the same time, the media quickly turned the whole thing into a farce. Justice will never be served now. How is the court system supposed to find a jury that's fair and balanced?

Uh, I know many former Canadians and they detest that form of healthcare.

I know many people who get daily medicine subsidised/free and receieved life changing and saving operations from that form of healthcare, myself included.
Stories about National healthcare go both ways, but nobodies interesting in hearing the great work that doctors and nurses do day in, day out because it isn't dramatic or scandalous.

[heyjoojoo]

Learn to use the edit button, next time I'm just going to delete all your posts

Uh, okay.

Yes, many people want better healthcare, but usually those are the same ones that would be able to afford pay per use healthcare. They're also the same ones complaining over how nice the newer model of their car is. It's a government service, and I think that it should be. Anyone that thinks that paying for life saving procedures is right has a slight deficiency in their head. Sure, more american hospitals are higher grade, but at least if I have a heart attack and need a transplant, I don't need to worry about having to sell everything I own so I can live.

Only dependent upon what level of care you have. If you have a decent healthcare program, you will not need an arm and a leg to pay for it.

As for the racially motivating it, I have but one thing to say. That's that racists aren't just white.

And this tidbit of information is not groundbreaking in the very least. Everyone knows that racism comes in from every group of people. My own people can be racist but somehow they tend to get away with it - I don't see any form of it excusable (if it exists...). My point is that we don't have always think that that's the case every time a non-black person shoots and kills a black person. And when out TV media feels confident and comfortable enough that they can edit something to inflame the general public, that is the worse form of public terrorism and racism - pitting one race against the other is just preposterous. And now we have certain political groups exploiting this shooting for their purposes, be it anti-gun activists, so called new black panther party or to stir up race wars by race baiting. You response here was interesting to me nonetheless.