64 replies to this topic

[ausavin26]

So sad... I found these audio recordings if you wanna listen.
http://www.huffingto..._n_1354909.html

[Voodoo_Operator]

I don't know what's the most disgusting part in all this... the cold-blooded, execution-style murder, or the fact that this asshole is getting away with it so far... or maybe it's the part where this kind of things can happen because of ridiculous laws where everyone can become a gun-wielding vigilante?

But hey, the right to bear arms is in the constitution, right? You definitely need people to arm themselves and stand their ground like Zimmerman did. You never known when the British may try to take back their colonies again, the sneaky bastards...

[Kermit]

This is why I still find the weapon law in the USA strange...

[Ami89E1234]

Ergo conservative and libertarian bigots who think a gun will change any situation favorably. There's far more deadly fun things to be used... like a paintball gun that shoots balls filled with HCl.

[erfd]

Were any of you there? No. Are any of you on the Sanford Police Dept.? No. So your going off of media stories? *sigh*

[Voodoo_Operator]

I frankly don't care how the story really goes, if the kid got aggressive, if he punched the other guy, who screamed on the 911 recording, whether Zimmerman looked like he had just taken a beating on the police videotapes, etc.

In the end, the fact is that a vigilante with a firearm killed an unarmed kid.

He was a vigilante with a firearm because idiotic laws allow such things to exist. This time, an unarmed kid died. Some other time, another vigilante might challenge the wrong guy and get murdered himself.

My point is, nothing good can come out of giving ordinary citizens the same powers and tools as police officers. Because, sadly, the citizens who will actually care to use those powers are often the most dumb and/or dangerous ones.

[Newfoundking]

This won't be far into the future the way things are going.


Anyone that supports this law, is either an idiot, or has never seen the real world. Sure on paper, in theory, this is sensible, I mean, who wouldn't want to defend themselves when a nut job gang banger comes up gun aimed at your head. Problem arises when you let the real world do this, racists, haters, and the like are more than happy to take advantage of the law. All they need to do is harass someone in private, provoke them, and then bring them out into the public to see the fight, then kill them. Woops. They were threatening.

The law on paper is sensible, but when placed in real life, well it's completely impossible to see any good end to this. They don't let just anyone become a cop because not just anyone can handle it. This law now lets assholes sorry, I meant gun weilding nutjobs erm, vigilantes take lives unpunished.

[Kermit]

If it was still the 18th and 19th century, I would understand the law, but nowadays is it not needed and it is so freakin' stupid. Walking with a gun on the streets or have one in your car. It is the most stupid law that is excisting. Smoking weed is not allowed (not that I support smoking weed or do it by myself) and having a gun is allowed? A gun is ten times more dangerous than weed...

[Dakota]

This is why I still find the weapon law in the USA strange...

There's nothing wrong with our right to bear arms. The law I believe your referring to is the "Stand your ground" law which exists is some states, it allows you to stand and fight vs running away and be protected legally. Makes sense to me, nobody wants to get shot in the back running away. However with this you'll always have somebody out there to abuse it as with any law.

There is a new law in one of our states allowing citizens the right to legally resist the police during an illegal search, but nobody complains about that law..

Regardless though, in the United States your are innocent until proven guilty, widespread yellow journalism and speculation does nothing to help the situation.


Edit

If it was still the 18th and 19th century, I would understand the law, but nowadays is it not needed and it is so freakin' stupid. Walking with a gun on the streets or have one in your car. It is the most stupid law that is excisting. Smoking weed is not allowed (not that I support smoking weed or do it by myself) and having a gun is allowed? A gun is ten times more dangerous than weed...

It's not stupid at all, a law abiding citizen has the right to carry a gun if he or she feels the need to in the United States. If you take away that right only the law abiding citizens will be without guns, do you really think a criminal will follow the law that says they can't have one? How things work in the US are quite different than in the UK and other European countries, and you need to understand that before casting judgement. Violence is high here not because of guns but because of poverty and behavioral psychology in our country being messed up in general amongst other things. I invite you to come from your town in the Netherlands and take a stay in some of our cities, we'll see how safe you feel. Then I'll tell you how the police or overstretched and may or may not be getting to your 911 call in a timley fashion, ie 5-10 minutes. When you could be dead in the first 1-2. There are many documented cases of guns being used successfully for home and personal defense in times when the police just couldn't get their fast enough.

Comparing "weed" to having a gun is completely unfair in my opinion as "weed" is not illegal in all states and and is regulated just as guns are in the states where it is legal. "Weed" is also a completely different animal than a firearm and should not be compared to one. Bottomline here is guns don't kill people, the people who use them do, and they will continue to regardless of what law is or isn't in existance here. A properly handled firearm is as safe as you make it, "weed" may or may not be laced with something, may or may not be addicting, may or may not cause increased incidents of MVCs, may or may not cause sexual impotence and memory loss as well as cancer, and may or may not be directly correlated to hundres of deaths south (and even within) our border.... depending on which sides research you choose to believe of course.

[theocd]

This is crazy, where I come from the cops aren't even armed, let alone the Neighbourhood Watch, you've seen Hot Fuzz, how could this not have been predicted...? o.O As far as I can see, its racially motivated murder. There's no evidence the vigilante's been attacked and he doesn't seem to have offered any challenge or ID to the 'suspect'
EDIT: He's told by dispatcher to leave him alone, look at /listen to the audio reports:
'"Are you following him?" the dispatcher asks.
"Yes," Zimmerman responds.
"We don't need you to do that," the dispatcher says'

And Voodoo, we're coming....slowly....

The OC-D

[Kermit]

@Dakota
The only thing I have to say to you is that I live in a city, not a town.

[Dakota]

@Dakota
The only thing I have to say to you is that I live in a city, not a town.

I use the term interchangelably. Regardless though I am sure your crime rates are much lower than ours sadly.

This is crazy, where I come from the cops aren't even armed, let alone the Neighbourhood Watch, you've seen Hot Fuzz, how could this not have been predicted...? o.O As far as I can see, its racially motivated murder. There's no evidence the vigilante's been attacked and he doesn't seem to have offered any challenge or ID to the 'suspect'
EDIT: He's told by dispatcher to leave him alone, look at /listen to the audio reports:
'"Are you following him?" the dispatcher asks.
"Yes," Zimmerman responds.
"We don't need you to do that," the dispatcher says'

Where you live is probably much different than here, but I know for a fact Britain's police make use of a tiered system and do have armed police officers along with unarmed and that a Taser there is considered a lethal weapon where as here it is considered less-than-lethal just to show you some differences between you and us.

Also, the neighborhood watch isn't armed, this person happened to have a weapon like thousands of other Americans. We love our guns and there is absolutely no issue with that.

There's very little evidence released at all at the moment as it's an ongoing investigation. The media has done a good job of tampering with what is released to slan the story one way or another. Rather than jumping to conlcusions now why not wait for the court case, then make up your mind.

This is sort of like what ignited our involvment in the Spanish-American war after a US ship blew up in Cuba. The media falsely reported it as an act by the Spanish, we got launched into a pointless war (go figure) and in the end it turns out the explosion was caused by an accidental fire on board the ship. The whole point of Yellow journalism is to make a story look the way you want it and get the effect you want, plus it sells.

---
By the way, just because a dispatcher tells you to do something, you don't have to listen, dispatchers are not comissioned police officers.

[EmergencyFan97]

This is crazy, where I come from the cops aren't even armed, let alone the Neighbourhood Watch, you've seen Hot Fuzz, how could this not have been predicted...? o.O As far as I can see, its racially motivated murder. There's no evidence the vigilante's been attacked and he doesn't seem to have offered any challenge or ID to the 'suspect'
EDIT: He's told by dispatcher to leave him alone, look at /listen to the audio reports:
'"Are you following him?" the dispatcher asks.
"Yes," Zimmerman responds.
"We don't need you to do that," the dispatcher says'

And Voodoo, we're coming....slowly....

The OC-D

That's not true. There is evidence that Zimmerman was attacked. The police report states that Zimmerman was bleeding from his head and nose. Cameras at the police station also can see a wound on the back of Zimmerman's head. Therefore, Zimmerman WAS attacked. Whether Martin attacked first or Zimmerman provoked it, we don't know.

[ausavin26]

This is crazy, where I come from the cops aren't even armed, let alone the Neighbourhood Watch, you've seen Hot Fuzz, how could this not have been predicted...? o.O As far as I can see, its racially motivated murder. There's no evidence the vigilante's been attacked and he doesn't seem to have offered any challenge or ID to the 'suspect'
EDIT: He's told by dispatcher to leave him alone, look at /listen to the audio reports:
'"Are you following him?" the dispatcher asks.
"Yes," Zimmerman responds.
"We don't need you to do that," the dispatcher says'

And Voodoo, we're coming....slowly....

The OC-D

I believe they say in watch patrol training to run away from a threatening person after you call for police

[Dakota]

I believe they say in watch patrol training to run away from a threatening person after you call for police

That video should be removed from this site, that's completely biased and based on soley 911 tapes? An immature response to that incident with very little thinking involved.

If you want to show both sides portray both of them as they actually were and take out all the propaganda. That video is no better than the ones the Taliban made showing Americans off as evil tyrants. Like I said, regardless of guilty or innocent, have some respect and maturity during this time, don't conribute to the sensationalism.

[Dyson]

That video should be removed from this site, that's completely biased and based on soley 911 tapes? An immature response to that incident with very little thinking involved.

If you want to show both sides portray both of them as they actually were and take out all the propaganda. That video is no better than the ones the Taliban made showing Americans off as evil tyrants.

Biased agreed, but 'the right to free speech' springs to mind, btw I have no opinion on this subject as I wasn't there.

[Dakota]

Biased agreed, but 'the right to free speech' springs to mind, btw I have no opinion on this subject as I wasn't there.

Free speech doesn't exist on the forums.

[Dyson]

Free speech doesn't exist on the forums.

Nar the American Government now owns the internet, did you not get the memo?

[Newfoundking]

Regardless of whether or not zimmerman was provoked doesn't matter in my opinion. With this law, you're essentially making vigilante justice legal. He was gonna hurt me, so I killed him. Even the guy that wrote this law and supports it, thinks it should not be applied in the Zimmerman case, it's not meant to be used in unarmed vs armed, it's supposed to be life or death. Which shows the law needs to be repealed immediately. You're entrusting citizens that probably couldn't become cops to now decide whether or not someone is a threat to their life or not. And not by hiding or fighting, but no, by killing them.

I think the law needs to be repealed. Having a blanket protection like that is stupid. It should be on a per case basis, whether or not that person was justified in killing person XYZ. Like it is everywhere else. Charge them, and stick them on trial, let a jury of their peers sort it out, and decide whether they were justified or not in killing the person.

Seems like the same ones that complain all the time about there being too many laws restricting them are the same ones that will support this law.. I don't think it's that their restrained by these laws that upsets them, but the fact they can't run wild and be protected by those laws that they don't like

In the way of guilt. I dunno, I know some black kid was shot by a white guy, and he's protected by this law. That's my extent of it, but regardless if he was armed or not, the law shouldn't protect anyone, everyone that kills someone should face an investigation, and if necessary, a trial, and if they were justified in the killing, they will be found not guilty

Also, in the way of free speech, the ammendment states: Congress shall not limit free speech

I'm not on Congress, nor is Stan, nor is Hoppah, or Voodoo, actually the only American Moderator I know of is Mikey, who is not active at this time. So we can say you are only allowed to spell without vowels, and failure to do so results in you being banned, and there isn't a law in the world that can change that. So free speech doesn't quite fit here. The Gov't shall not limit free speech is what it should be listed as.

[aitor]

Also, the neighborhood watch isn't armed, this person happened to have a weapon like thousands of other Americans. We love our guns and there is absolutely no issue with that.

Yes, there is. Just look which has happened and this thread is about.

If carry a gun everywhere you can kill anybody with the excuse of the "autodefense".
Even in the case of Martin attacked him, do you think its reasonable to use the lethal force for an unarmed boy?
Here my opinion, and just my opinion so don't start then here flaming me: if the vigilante had been black and the boy who shoot white, he would have already been tried and convicted...

I think there's something wrong with the gun control laws in the USA.