471 replies to this topic

[Xplorer4x4]

LAFD uses Ferno 28Z PROFlexx gurney chair/cot or the PROFlexx Model 93-PST “heavy lift gurney.”
http://forum.emergen...?showtopic=7398
Scroll down to the RA section.

[Sgt.Wulf]

The slick-top Crown Victoria that Hoppah has in his game, is it realistically modelled? As the model in game, the only emergency light in front is the steady burning red and not a single blue or red. Is this really the case, and if it is, why? In my opinion it seems to be inadequate lighting for an police car.

[Newfoundking]

I remember that being discussed a while ago, and yes the one red light in front is realistc. To be an emergency vehicle, all you really need is one single steady burn front facing red light according to CA law.

I be believe it used to be red and blue in older versions but what changed tro be more realistic

[racer123246]

That's awfully strange, does anyone know why?

[dizza]

That's awfully strange, does anyone know why?

Why what???

-d

[racer123246]

Why the red light is required by law.

[MikesPhotos]

[GRRR stupid board won't let me post this reply so I'm breaking it up into 2 part]

Been a while since i checked this thread, so let's cull through some of the crap and get to the meat..

All of these answers will be quick, if you need more in depth, ask, and I'll see if I have time...

I'll try to field this, and Mike can correct me.

I haven't seen Hide-A-Ways on any LAPD MARKED units, or LASD for that matter. We have Wig-Wags, which are the standard bulbs with a flasher circuit, but I've never come across strobeson marked cars. I've seen them in Unmarked, but only as same-color as bulb.

We don't flash the CHMSL either, as there's a regulation somewhere about the CHMSL being nonswitched to retain its message (stopping only), which I can't seem to find... If you're talking about the regular combo BTT lights (Brake lights on either side of the car), I haven't seen LAPD Marked units flash them(Though there's probably some around), but I've seen them wag on Slicktops and UMs.

LAPD has 3 types of cars
Standard patrol Crown Vic
Hybrid which is a marked slicktop without a roof bar
Dual Purpose which is an unmarked slicktop without a roof bar.

With the recent move from Code 3 to FedSig lights, new additional lights have been tossed in as incentives to sticking with the Arjent which has proved to be almost invisible in the bright california sun

So newest Patrol cars now have front and rear corner LEDs. Hybrids and DP's now have the corners, and a single flash blue RVM next to the steady burn red.

Go here for full walkaround videos of the new patrol and DP's, amongst others.

Close up pics of the corner lights
http://www.flickr.co...57619768894888/
http://www.flickr.co...57619768894888/
http://www.flickr.co...57619768894888/
http://www.flickr.co...57622714405175/
http://www.flickr.co...57615846505997/

LASD patrols have clear front corner strobes, red rear strobes.
Some LASD unmarked have the strobes, not all. Rear lights are either single amber/blue on drivers side, or dual like this


Honestly, LASD unmarked cars are just all over the place.... no two are the same. Most have red and blue grille lights, some have a throw up steady burn dash light, some have 2, some have 4 rear shelf lights, some have LEDs around the 3rd brake light, some have spotlights, some dont. It all depends on what came over when they got the contract for that area.

Video of LASD with amber/blue halogen, same as LAPD before they switched to LED.
Vid

Mike, I was talking to my friends tonight, and I cant recall if he said this was just a Cali thing or nation wide, as he just got back from spending a few months in Cali, but he said, note that I dont have alot of faith in this, that Ford is said to be discontinue the CV. In its place Ford will make a car called an "Interceptor" which will be available with a civi package as well as a interceptor package like that of the CV. Have you heard any such rumors?

Ford hasnt pulled its head out of its ass and decided what to do yet. The Crown Vic will be discontinued in 2011, no replacement has been decided yet, and they were stunned by the introduction of the new Chevy Caprice.

And I'm looking forward to hearing Mike's responses on the CV. I've heard the rumors, but I don't think they're doing that for another few years. The Interceptor looks a lot like the Charger, I wonder if they're trying to compete... A sad state, considering LAPD and LASD don't seem to like the Charger in the first place.

Charger has been nixed, and was despised by all. Caprice will be the new car.

I wouldnt be happy if i had to drop the LT1 for the CV engine.

Mike, or Novious, in larger cities like Chicago I notice they have officers standing in intersections directing traffic to help keep intersections clear for the most part I would guess, but are these types of officers utilized in LA much?

Let me see if I can't find Mike's quote on that... I remember seeing something about it a while back.
Here we go:
Mike's Post

There's pics associated on his post as well. I know that LAPD CAN and WILL do traffic direction, but as Mike has mentioned, there's other departments to cover it.

They will do it begrudgingly, and will not respond to a situation TO do that. They will not even respond to non-injury accidents to help clear an intersection. That is what DOT is for. They also respond to fires and other incidents where traffic control is needed. LAPD will (somtimes) do it if they're on scene already until DOT arrives, but often, they treat it like picking up dog poop barehanded.

To be fair, I've never seen(although I know they exist) any slicktops or unmarked units with a T/A in the rear window like the mod has. It's nice to have it available, but I've only seen them with blue/yellow lights on the package shelf. I usually see more 2 cars in the light force blocking the road off than LAPD cars.

http://www.flickr.co...57615737206350/
http://www.flickr.co...57615737206350/

Now you have

And LAPD now has Hi Viz vests as of June of this year. Most officers will not wear it, and the rules have been changed so that they only need to when involved in direct traffic control for extended periods. The problem for many officers is that you cant reach your gear easily, like the gun, with it on.
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3629752896/
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3628945181/

Question that I don't have an answer to.
I used to be in bomb squad (univentful so I transfered) and we didn't have a bomb robot, is it possible that the frequencies from the controler could set off a radio controled bomb???

Anything is possible.

I've never seen a bomb robot not actually be wired to the controller, so I couldn't tell you if they even have radio controlled robots. I thought they wired them to keep that from happening, same as cutting radio traffic in the area.

Most are wireless that i've seen
FBI
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3737709500/
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3737856434/

ATF
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3386362115/

VCSO
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3820331664/
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3819476599/
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3819509613/

(wire just goes back to the truck for power)

LAPD
http://www.flickr.co..._us/3385910210/

Mike:
I've been wanting to redo my radio transmissions ingame for some time, and I can't find any research on LAFD Radio codes.
If you could give me a quick overview on codes, that'd be great. I still haven't decided how to call my codes out for standby and return to base, though I think they'll be variations of code 4 for LAPD.
EDIT: Since La Canada is burning, and Rancho PV just died down, I imagine you'll be busy for a while. No rush, and be safe. We're all very grateful for your service.

Radio codes are rapidly disappearing. Plain Language communication is becoming the standard. That way, nobody needs to get out their decoder ring when operating with a different agency.

While this is true, there are still codes being used for safety purposes, and truncation of otherwise long transmissions in LA. Specifically, I'm looking to record over the 10-codes that are being used in the LA Mod right now, as they're not LA realistic.

There are no LAFD codes. Literally there are NONE. Instead of code 3, the correct on air terminology would be "Respond Emergency"

The only thing close would be DB for dead body, or ETOH for drunk.

Here's the LAPD ones

Great one for LAPD, he asked for lafd.

[MikesPhotos]

[OK 4+ parts...]

The tractor and aerial can't be separated, so an ALF (American LaFrance) tractor would have a slightly different aerial unit than say a Simon.

Actually not quite true. Both the Simon and the ALFs in service use LTI ladders and tillers. The entire rear section is the same regardless of the tractor.

Maybe some one with knowledge of LA can help me out here. Does LA dispatch there ambulances from the station or do they patrol? Do they do both?

There are ****NO**** ambulance patrols. LAFD ambulances are housed within the stations.

They do not patrol. The presence of an ambulance does not lower injury-rate in the same way a patrolling police car lowers crime-rate.
Sometimes, they can be present in festivals, concerts or something like that. Maybe even grabbing lunch from McDonalds and thus they are visiting the city.

Exactly. The reason why police patrol? To be a visible force within the community to act as a deterrent to crime (basic AJ 101).

A Patrolling ambulance has no effect on whether or not you have a heart attack. Illness doesn't run in fear of Fire/EMS unfortunately.

Of course it doesnt lower injury-rate but it could lower response times.

Check out this from the LAFD website. The areas where there are a lack of stations are either mountain ranges or not city. How would an ambulance bassically making right turns every few intersections around and around and around a fire station help response times at all?

patrolling has nothing to do with reducing anything

Actually it does. Patrolling is either to reduce response times or to provide a deterrence and reduce crime (in the respect of Law Enforcement)

Also wondered why LAPD has there own dive team rather then relying on LAFD?

My guess is for special opperations and traning, such as

Checking boats for bombs
Search and recovery
Police investigations
SWAT activites
so on

Well LAPD divers would have training in different things than the LAFD counterparts...

Because they do two different jobs.

LAFD divers are trained in rescue and firefighting operations.

LAPD divers are trained in underwater evidence collection, underwater search and inspection of vessels and piers in the Port of LA, and underwaterborne boarding of vessels, which the Coast Guard does not have the capability to do in the Port of LA.

The ONLY and let me be BLUNT AND SPECIFIC ABOUT THIS...
The only rescue work they do is in response to a downed aircraft off LAX. Beyond that, they have NO rescue training, they have NO rescue ability, they are solely focused on evidence recovery from the various lakes, ponds, pools, and bodies of water, inspecting ships and piers, and underwater entry of vessels

How do I know this? Well, because I spent quite a bit of time with these guys and as a fellow scuba diver, I am intrigued by their tactics, methods and tools. My favorite quote of theirs? Daryl Scoggins was asked "How many people have you rescued?" .. the answer was an emphatic... "NONE." They don't even carry rescue equipment, nor do they train for it. Only a handful of the senior divers have the rescue diver training needed to be an instructor.

One of my prized possessions is the LAPD UDU hat and Shirt I own, and you can see it draped over the monitor with this thread visible here

As for the Ambulances. I am not 100% sure, but I think they dispatch mainly from stations, and ambulances are not usually patrolling, however they may be out and around the city, for lunch, just waiting, or whatever. I know here, they have a bay under the main hospital in the underground parking garage, that is devoted for ambulance parking only, and usually ambulances will leave from there. Now of course there are the ones out and about the city at the other hospitals, at different stations, and of course, 1 or 2 out and about.

Let me clear this up a bit, yes some hospitals, like cedars sinai have underground entrances for the ER, others like kaiser Woodland hills do not. These are not "parking" areas for Fire apparatus, but only to be used to drop the patient off, pick up your crap, and free up the spot. If while enroute back to the station they get a 2nd call, hey, it happens. But that is not their home base, and they are to free up that spot as quickly as feasible and get back to their station and first-in district.

*According to an article I just read, LAFD divers are brought to scenes off via helicopter for off the coast/harbor water rescues, stills seems to me UDU could prove faster,and have more equipment.*

UDU has a single large Pierce Arrow XT at Piper Tech and spends most of its time in the port of LA. It'd take an hour just to get out of the port with LA traffic. As for more equipment, their dive boat is an OLD lafd fire boat that was donated to them. This is why LAFD with its swift water rescue teams throughout the city, and dive teams transportable by fire helo are quicker, better equipped and tasked with rescue.

EDIT: I ended up finding an answer:
http://lasdreserve.o...chAndRescue.htm
Guess I was wrong as they only have to be an EMT.

The highest level of reserve SAR training is EMT-B.

I ran a few calls with LASD SAR. They are BLS. They respond when requested (if requested). I remember LACOFD was big on just doing it themselves, but maybe things have changed.

That's my experience. They are definitely BLS, last I checked. If they need ALS, that's what the LACoFD squads are there for.

LACoFD and the SAR teams have a long history, not all of it is good. These are unpaid volunteers who have a tendency to be more ricky rescue then professional at times.

What equipment is held on the hummer in terms of usable items in game play like Jaws of Life, Flash Bang, Road Blocks, etc?

Is LA still primarily doing ALS Engines, or have they moved more towards Paramedic Assessment Engines?

Just litter basket, rope, water, SAR gear. No LEO or Fire equipment

And no, ALS engines are almost all gone now, just PAE.

Does the LAPD use an electronic airhorn on any of their vehicles?

Not on crown vics, only on the motorcycles, and it tends to be screwy and sound like a duck fart so its never used.

Hey Mike MT275 here, I read some stuff in your section several questions for ya.
In EMS in my county a ALS is considered to have a Paramedic/Emt or Paramedic/Paramedic.We don't have BLS trucks.

What does LA consider BLS and ALS?
What is different about the RA and ALS ambulance other than there make?
What is the difference in divisions in LAPD? i.e. traffic vs. patrol
How do private EMS companies recieve calls (other than a person calling them with a regular phone #) if LAFD has EMS?

Thanks,MT275

Most of this is in the guide and the manual but quick answer
BLS - EMT level of training (no drugs no intubation)
ALS -Paramedic level

both ambulances are RA's. ALS has paramedic gear and staffed with 2 PM's, BLS has no paramedic gear and is staffed with two EMTs

Patrol is the standard normal everyday police group that responds to all emergencies

Traffic is focused on accident investigation, focused on targeting areas where there are a lot of speed complaints, they tend to focus around school zones to enforce the stop signs and speed there. Its just what they say it is.

Private companies have no role within the CITY of Los Angeles as far as Emergency 911 goes. They are simply used by hospitals, nursing homes, and citizens who contract with them, or call their business line. Frequent flyers at one time used to be handed off to AMR, but since the fracturing of the LACo EMS system and the problem with transient dumps (ambulances just ditching patients on the side of the road), this is super rare anymore. LAFD just hauls them all now.

I believe LAPD uses 245 for ADW or assault with deadly weapon but is that also used for a shooting incident with one wounded? I've seen a code for shooting into a dwelling but not sure what the code is for anyone who's been shot while walking down the street.

LAPD doesnt really use codes like you think they do. For example, 246 is the PENAL code for a shooting in a dwelling, but you would never ever hear 246 on the radio.

For most shootings it would simply be 1A1 respond to the ADW in progress.

417 is the penal code for person with a gun, but its never used on air, it'd be a 415 man,woman, group with a gun.

[MikesPhotos]

[Maybe the last part]

Since the ALS Engines and ALS buses are stationed together usually, how is it decided weather to role just an ALS bus vs a bus and engine?

If its a territory that doesnt have ALS Engines and buses together, then whats the deciding factor? What evers closer and/or the extent of the injury(ies)?

Will answer this later in the guide

Hey Mike do any of the lafd apparatus have led bars?
Does the lafd EMS use stryker cots?
What is the current lapd/lasd Undercover/slicktop lighting?

Newer brush patrols, chiefs, and trucks have led bars.
no
see above.

The slick-top Crown Victoria that Hoppah has in his game, is it realistically modelled? As the model in game, the only emergency light in front is the steady burning red and not a single blue or red. Is this really the case, and if it is, why? In my opinion it seems to be inadequate lighting for an police car.

Why the red light is required by law.

Both are wrong.
Hybrid should have a pushbumper and led grille lights added
DP is just fantasy as far as the pushbumper and lighting meant to be a generic any agency car.

As far as the steady burn red, (god this is annoying to have answered OVER and OVER on this board), YES.... that is the way California has done it for decades. Why?

Ugh, i really dont want to get into this honestly, but fine....

History of emergency lighting starts with the history of police cars. Back in the 40s all the way until the 70s all LAPD cars had was Steady burn red to the front, and amber flashers to the rear, and they felt that was more then enough and it worked. Watch the old Adam-12 episodes to see the old can lights.

Then we got the olympics and blue was added to patrol cars so europeans could ID the cars better, and we go the new fancy red and blue lightbars. But the unmarked, hybrid cars, stayed with just steady burn red to the front, flashing blue/amber to the rear, and wig wag headlights and nothing else.

California law is very specific, ALL authorized emergency vehicles MUST have a steady burn red to the front because it helps people track the vehicle better then flashing does. You can add all you want, including a flying saucer with a billion lights, but you MUST have that single red burning lamp to the front.

Today, they have added a new blue flashing lamp beside the steady burn red on some DP's and Hybrids, and corner leds, but I can tell you, the blue is nearly invisible next to the steady burn red, and looks lower in the vehicle due to the wave length of blue light.

Remeber, these cars not not pursuit cars, they rarely respond full code 3, but the lights are much like a tow trucks, just to get them through the traffic once they are near/at the incident.

[racer123246]

Wow, thanks Mike, that was a little more than expected, but now I understand.

[billyfromhill]

Does LACoFD have a large bus? I was watching a video and I noticed a large bus in the background labeled Los Angeles County Fire Department.

[MikesPhotos]

Does LACoFD have a large bus? I was watching a video and I noticed a large bus in the background labeled Los Angeles County Fire Department.

Yeah quite a few of them are at LAO (headquarters) for the explorers to use.

[Xplorer4x4]

Check out this from the LAFD website. The areas where there are a lack of stations are either mountain ranges or not city. How would an ambulance bassically making right turns every few intersections around and around and around a fire station help response times at all?

Thats a bit harsh when educating people. Excuse me for not being familiar with the geographic location of every station in LA.


Whats the usual first due response for a structure fire in terms of trucks? A lightforce and an extra engine for example?

[MikesPhotos]

Thats a bit harsh when educating people. Excuse me for not being familiar with the geographic location of every station in LA.

To take a page from MikeyPI's handbook, if you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions. I'm not your mother, your kindergarten teacher, your professor, or your counselor. I don't get paid, and I'm not here to make friends or coddle you.

A question was asked, and an informed answer was given. I didn't curse, I didn't belittle, nor did I avoid the question with a smart ass reply like "Duh!" If you can't handle blunt answers when i'm answering 4 pages of questions, well, no one says you have to ask, nor read.

Whats the usual first due response for a structure fire in terms of trucks? A lightforce and an extra engine for example?

Depends on the type of structure, basic single fam dwelling residential:
4 Companies including the nearest light force.
- (can be 2 engines, 2 lfs, 1 engine, 3 lfs, 4 lfs, 3 engines, 1 lf depending on availability, typically 3E & 1 LF or 1 TF and 2E)

2 LAFD Rescue Ambulances
- 1 PM 1 800 usually

1 EMS Battalion Captain (medical unit leader)

1 Battalion Chief Officer Command Team (bc and his staff assistant).

Additional units are requested as needed by their designation, not by "alarms"

[Xplorer4x4]

To take a page from MikeyPI's handbook, if you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions. I'm not your mother, your kindergarten teacher, your professor, or your counselor. I don't get paid, and I'm not here to make friends or coddle you.

A question was asked, and an informed answer was given. I didn't curse, I didn't belittle, nor did I avoid the question with a smart ass reply like "Duh!" If you can't handle blunt answers when i'm answering 4 pages of questions, well, no one says you have to ask, nor read.

You could say thats a page out of my handbook as well. Sounds like a quote out of some of my posts.

Seemed smart ass considering the context; Surely you know the old saying, Its not what you say but how. For example,
Smart:
How would an ambulance bassically making right turns every few intersections around and around and around a fire station help response times at all?

Blunt:
An ambulance bassically making right turns every few intersections around and around and around a fire station would not help response times at all.


Thanks none the less.

[MikesPhotos]

GerardTill asked whether or not LAFD Engine 60 was totaled during the sink hole incident

http://www.flickr.co...afd/3903041582/

Last time I heard anything about it, it was still being decided. The guys at the shops have done some amazing recoveries, including 1 engine that was completely burned over and 1 that rolled over after being struck by a drunk driver, but I have a feeling this will be a complete loss.

[Xplorer4x4]

What type make/model of handhelds are most common for emergency services in LA? What system type are you guys using?

[MikesPhotos]

What type make/model of handhelds are most common for emergency services in LA? What system type are you guys using?

There are 88 cities in Los Angeles County with over 65% of the county unincorporated. The answers to both questions can be easily found by googling and checking http://radioreference.com/

[Xplorer4x4]

Well I meant LA City, not city and county, but I will see what I can dig up. Just didnt seem like something that would be found with a google search.

[Ami89E1234]

Dja hear about the FF who got a skull fracture at a water main break in Culver City?