72 replies to this topic

[greenlights]

http://www.urbandict...term=wacker          lol

[OPPFAN134]

In Ontario you can have 1 Green light, no more. And no Sirens either.

 

Saskatchewan now allows Red Lights and Sirens, but they need special training from the Province.

[Fred03]

I'm not sure about the whole green light thing, it seems a odd color for emergency lights. I'm aware that where people are used to it things might be different but if I was driving along and saw flashing green lights ahead of me on the road it wouldn't have the same "oh that's a emergency vehicle" response as red or blue lights would. The same thing applies for white lights which is one of the arguments I've heard against them even though they can be seen from a greater distance.

[Newfoundking]

The argument I've heard for green lights is that it's something different. Everyone knows red is emergency in NA. Then we've got blue, which varies from place to place, but no matter where it is, it has a set definition. Amber is look out for me, not make room for me, and white is more of an auxiliary light than anything. The idea with green is it's so different from the rest, it can be assigned a different meaning. 

 

As for whackers, one thing assumed is that every whacker breaks the rules. Most do not break the rules, they just take them to the limit. It's not against the rules to have your radio up, and a team shirt on everywhere you go, but you won't be at it all the time making yourself known, unless you're a whacker. Here we put stickers on our vehicles, one driver window, and two rear window, that designate us as part of the department we're with, and is essentially a way for the police to know if your vehicle can be where it can be, because we don't have any different plates from the rest of the province, however we will work on the other side of the yellow tape frequently. So the rule is have some stickers on your car. Some people make sure there's a sticker on EVERYTHING they own, their phone case, their car, their bag, etc. Just so that they can be known. These are whackers. Again, not breaking the rules, just making it known who they are. 

[Fred03]

The sticker thing seems a little unnecessary (I understand though if its the law) the people on your department should know everyone's POVs and if it has a green light going I would think the police would be able to figure out that it was a volunteer's POV. And you're right about wackers, they stay legal just cross the boundary of good taste.

[Newfoundking]

The stickers are because we don't run lights on our vehicle that are visible from outside, we've got good people for hiding lights, and when we are on scene, there's no lights flashing anyways, too hard to see things. The stickers work as a Do Not Ticket, Do Not Tow, Do Not Pullover thing. I don't know if it's luck, or if it's fear, but not a single parking ticket has been placed on my car since I put the stickers in the windows. And for reference, the stickers are approximately 1/3 banana. They're not like decals by any means.

 

It's typical here to see departments issue stickers for POVs, even to paid firefighters who do not use their POV for work. 

[Fred03]

You don't leave your lights on on-scene? I've used mine with its lights on to shut down traffic lots of times, also helps the apparatus find the location if I get there first. Although I can kill my very (very) bright light separate for working at night if it gets irritating. Do you shut down lights on your apparatus on scene too? Is that a tradition or a policy?

[Newfoundking]

We seldom operate on roadways and when we do, they're shut down. You need to remember, I'm not a firefighter. 

[Fred03]

Oh what are you?

[theocd]

He's Search and Rescue, he said it a few posts back.

I'm not sure what I feel about Lights on POV's, I was both disappointed and relieved when blues and twos got removed from Community First Responders. Yes, they now respond more slowly to emergencies, but they're community so locality means it'll be quicker than an ambulance. It reduces the need for training or having people who can only operate blue lights under certain conditions who aren't really assessed.

Green courtesy lights exist for Doctors in the UK, they are seldom used (you more often see them alongside blue on cars such as HEMS has) and offer no right of way (unless alongside blues). THat might be where Canada got the idea from? o.O

 

The OC-D

[Fred03]

A number of people will tend to say "it only saves you a few seconds, minutes at the most" the response I generally gave was "well in this business seconds matter" .

 

And thank you, I guess I didn't see that about NFK. I guess for SAR you don't need as much on scene "visibility" as the initial responders do for other incidents.

[Newfoundking]

Well, we're a SAR department, yes, but we work with the Police a lot too, so we'll do more than your basic looking for lost people as well. Even still, it's generally off the road, or closed roads. I can only think of one time when we had a rig left on the road and it was left open. 

[MikeyPI]

My feelings as someone who's got the lights on one of my cars is that in reality most the people who have them really don't need them (myself included). While mine isnt a light farm, they still look out of place on my POV.. In america it isnt normal to see lights on my particular car, but it's lit up with police lights just the same... From my experience the lights really don't make people move too fast anyway because again my car is not commonly an emergency vehicle in america, now the air horn works quite well at scaring people half to death and making them move quickly out of the way. But again the "seconds counting" really doesnt come into play with me, mine were put on for work duty that I rarely if ever even need them for, meaning most the time they are hidden quietly out of sight and never even seen by most people unless you lean down and look at the roof inside the car. Seconds may count, but when you have more vehicles responding with emergency lighting (perhaps not heeding regulations or knowing another emergency vehicle may be approaching that same intersection) you end up with a messy accident because both vehicles assumed right of way without yielding in an attempt to make it to the scene faster.

 

In the end yes the lights serve a purpose, but they can only serve that purpose if used responsibly, and considering that most POV's don't have a full blown "black box" or camera running when they are responding to a scene it just gives alot of room to not abide by the regulations set by municipalities/gov or the departments in question, resulting in abusive behavior that can cause more harm than good.  Yes it is usually the one rotten egg, but in this world it's the one rotten egg that spoils the whole dish.

[Newfoundking]

Mike made a comment just then about a black box/camera. What does everyone think about enforcing a rule such that any time lights are activated on your vehicle, a camera similar to police dashcams is activated that records everything about what you're doing. Do you think this would be a good investment?

[Fred03]

I would love that if it was part of the insurance policy or something, its a pain to get your POV covered for responding.

[MikeyPI]

All modern cars have such a "black box" that is capable of telling the last 30 seconds to 1 minute of the vehicle operation IE brake input, speed, forces incurred, etc... GM started putting them in their cars around about 1998, the rest of the auto makers have put in a similar system with the computer controlled nature of the automobiles today.  The problem with the system is that it is easy to fool/clear... IF you spin the wheels the speedo reads the wheel speed, not actual for example, if ABS is offline (this can be done by the driver) it shows the speed as 0 even though the vehicle is still obviously moving.  The car equiv of a black box just doesnt work as well as a full blown recording of the incident.  Alot of gov't vehicles have to have cameras operative while in operation, sadly POV aint one of em.

[Lt GMFD]

Maine, USA // Red + White Lights. Sirens only for Chief Officers.

[Fred03]

Well I found its bloody difficult to get insurance on your POV for when you are using it as a emergency vehicle (since in my state it is considered a emergency vehicle) One of the biggest reasons is (or so I've heard) that you are automatically at fault for any wreck you are involved in while responding and its very hard to prove you are not at fault, I think dash-cams could fix that issue.

[Newfoundking]

I don't believe in the automatically at fault thing, because people tend to be stupid. Does that mean that red light means you're never at fault? Hell no. I'd say it's a 70/30 split, at best. I've seen accidents where the driver of the EV blew a light without due regard, and smashed into another vehicle, or say overtook without clearing the other side of the road. This is common here in police more than anything, because police cars tend to be flying around more than the rest. I've also seen incidents, where with due regard, say an ambulance would clear an intersection, like full stop, not rolling, and get halfway into the intersection when someone blows the light, trying to beat the ambulance.

 

The CRU here apparently prefers these types of MVAs, because it's easier to determine who is at fault (an ambulance going 15 on a 70 road hit by a car doing 70, the car is more than likely at fault) but I digress. 

 

Lighting here isn't something you see a lot of on private vehicles, not that it doesn't happen, because it does, but it's not something people use a lot of, and when they do, it's almost always with due regard, especially when it's THEIR vehicle. I think in NL, the MVA responding priority 1 accident rate is like less than 1 every 5 years

[MikeyPI]

Here the emergency vehicle is not at fault regardless of what it's done, so they tend to behave a bit more accordingly to that law if you can guess my meaning.... I am a great example of someone that just by using the blinky lights and blowing a light, the lights and siren on with a reasonable cause for being on I'd not be held liable for plowing into your mini-van... You should've heeded the warning lights and siren and not been in my wreckless way... I think it's rediculous because due regard should be practiced but the law says they arent at fault and as such more police than ems/fire behave more wrecklessly.