53 replies to this topic

[EmergencyP0N-3]

I'm here on behalf if the victims of the 20 parents of the mass shooting at a Newton,CT.

http://www.myfoxdc.c...n#axzz2F409ZM7Q

"Even when I walk through a valley of deep darkness, I will not be afraid because you are with me. Your rod and your staff—they comfort me." -Psalm 23:4

[goog]

I heard an entire kindergarten class are the casualties.My heart goes out to the parents as a father of a grade 1 student I could never comprehend getting a call telling me my child was taken from me in this manner.
God bless their little souls and give their familes strength through this catastrophe in their lives.

[Voodoo_Operator]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
-Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The security of a free state. Well that makes a lot of sense today, doesn't it...

I know I'm going to make a lot of enemies right now, a lot of you will think that it's "not the time" and "too soon" to ask, but the thing is, every time a tragedy like this one - I'm not sure "like this one" is the right wording here because this is beyond everything we've seen so far - but every time it does, everyone immediately says "not now, it's time to grieve". But once the grieving is over, the debate never really resurfaces... not until the next tragedy, when it reappears and is almost immediately set aside, in an absurd vicious circle. I'm sorry if I am going to offend you, and I suggest that you stop reading now if you really want to avoid the topic of gun control.

So I'm Canadian. You can obtain firearms here in Canada, but the types which you can obtain are much more limited, and you have to go through a lot of bureaucratic hoops - including background checks and inquiries with your relatives - before you can obtain one. There are also strict rules on how you must store your guns, use them and transport them. In the end, hunters can still hunt, and you can even go to the gun range for target practice. Technically, you can even own a gun for "protection" at home (just not carry it in public), as long as you comply to ownership and storage laws. The first thing every gun rights advocate says on the issue of gun control is that "if I don't have the right to own a gun, the criminals will still obtain one illegally and have the upper hand". We have criminals here too. And yes, they do obtain firearms through illegal means. But, strangely enough, murders, shootings and home invasions are still rare occurrences here, and even more so outside of criminal VS criminal crimes. Hell, big cities like Montreal and Toronto get yearly homicide rates that don't even come close to weekly rates in the largest US cities. Very few people here own guns (even if they could), yet everyone still feels much safer. Why? It's not really a question of rights as much as a question of culture.

The most serious problem is America's gun culture. Think of American symbols, and guns probably won't be far down the list after the star-spangled banner, bald eagles and cowboy hats. It's time that the political powers that be reflect on this problem and stop listening to the nutjobs who use phrases such as "from my cold dead hands". The problem is about being able to obtain a gun as easily as you can obtain a fishing rod. The problem is about thinking of your gun as an extension of your manhood. The problem is thinking you, your family and your property will be safer from outside threats as long as you own a gun (and will be proportionally safer according to the number of guns you own). The problem to view shooting guns as a fun hobby for the whole family, even bringing your kids to the gun range or in the backwoods to fire a pistol or a military-grade machine gun. The problem is thinking that waving a gun will magically solve any problem - that bringing a gun to a knife fight, fist fight, word fight, will immediately resolve the issue and make you a winner. The problem is to be overzealous in exercising your right to carry a gun by walking around in broad daylight with a machine gun and telling a police officer that he's violating your open carry rights when he's asking what you're doing - then posting the video on Youtube and praising yourself as a civil rights advocate against the evil police state/Obama/ATF/U.N. conspiracy.

The problem is about thinking of your gun as an irrevokable right given by your forefathers, who needed to keep muskets to repel the assaults of the British, and who probably would have had second thoughts if they knew that one day, firearms that can fire hundreds of rounds per minute could be bought by Joe Everyman, and then used to walk in a school, or a mall, or an office, or a movie theater, or a church, and shoot everything that moves.


27 people died today. Of those, 20 were innocent children. This is beyond horror. Yet it's just another shooting in America this year. I just hope that these poor souls didn't go to heaven in vain. And that their families aren't mourning such unacceptable losses in vain, either. It would be an insult to their memories NOT to think - right now - about how America's gun culture is a serious problem that exposes a lot of innocent lives to another such tragedy that could happen anytime.

R.I.P.

[Newfoundking]

I don't think I could've worded it better myself. That man above me, everything he said.

[Sawdbuster]

This is disgusting, and I'm gonna hate the next few weeks, hearing about the political blames for this: Gun control, violent video games or tv, etc. This is a problem, but It's not anything that is going to be said over the news. They are always going to be another shooting and they are gonna blame it on video games, death-metal, and gun control. I say it is the last one, but the fact is that banning guns isn't going to solve it. Drugs are illegal, but junkies can still get high. It's the people who buy guns, the guns should do something, but there is nothing the government can do about it, people can fake a test, lie or just buy a gun illegally.

Nothing will stop this, the fasted way I see to stop a mass shooting is by insanely fast police response, and places cut police and fire budgets like there's no frigging tomorrow. My town is pretty much the same as that town today, but we have 2 officers patrolling a shift, one at the station, and 5 or 6 firefighters. There are only 3 firefighters at HQ and if there is a medical two of them have to take the bus, if there is a fire, they take the ladder and the engine from station 2 responds. If anything like this were to happen, the engine would go from station 2, and one guy from station 1 would be one each of those, because those trucks would become cover for police.

Each cop is armed with a Glock, some carry backups (snubs) and there is a AR-15 in the cruiser. I know that something like this would be covered but how long until they get there? one of the cruisers is always at least 20 min away from the school w/o lights and sirens in Division 2. I would feel safer, not if everybody carried guns, but if there were more trained cops there to deal with it.

So there is the problem with shootings, not guns. That's just My two-cents, My heart still goes out to the families and the victims.

[Grim_Wizard]

Voodoo, I really respect your opinion and it was well thought out and well written. Though I really have to disagree. The amount of violence would never really subside because while guns are a part of American culture, so is violence. It is not incredibly hard to obtain weapons illegally. In public at a military memorabilia event I was offered a pair of powerful handguns without serial numbers for $50. American street gangs which are a problem in any area with low income housing and low educational opportunities already obtain cases of illegal firearms and other weapons.

As for me I own a shotgun that I do not take out for any reason unless it's for target practice or if someone is breaking into my house. And that's what most legal gun owners do with their guns there are only a select few who go in and shoot up buildings. What's important though and what I believe is lacking are the requirements for owning and purchasing guns which are a bit lax but I don't believe that decreasing magazine size or other functionality of weapons or banning them entirely is the right answer.

I figured the subject would come up and that's my 2 cents.

As for the shooting this is incredibly tragic. I actually spent this morning going over a school shooting drill in my medical class. My condolences to all involved I can't imagine the loss of any life especially a child. May they rest in peace.

EDIT: Also my point on the fact that anyone hellbent on causing violence can kill a large number of people without a gun: http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ack-school.html

[Sawdbuster]

@gerard

True, 3 cops got stabbed with a BBQ fork last summer in the neighboring town. And all those limits on guns will never stop anything Guns are illegal in Mexico and gangs can manage to get enough firepower to go ambush a police station or two. So This topic/debate comes down to how ignorant you are on the topic: you either know nothing is going to stop these guys and the only way to be proactive is to be reactive; or you can spit some politician bullshit and say 'well we are banning these and nobody will be able to get them'. (yeah right)

BTW: I hate the world view I have at my age, but I guess I need it.

[Newfoundking]

Gerard: I don't think Voodoo was advocating a change for gun laws, in fact, he was advocating not even trying that. From what I read, and my opinion is to start a paradigm shift. In America it seems that guns are seen as the safety net. Which is illogical. Voodoo wasn't stating from my view that gun culture removal will stop killings, I think he was just advocating that there needs to be a change in what people see as acceptable. If gun use is not as expected, less people will carry and you won't need to worry as much about ensuring each police officer has three weapons of choice available at all times

Sawdbuster: As cynical a view it may be, it's the world we live in. It's better to believe this world sucks at a young age and start then to do something about it instead of when you're too old and busy to make any real change

[Grim_Wizard]

I see. It was my assumption that it was the other way around. Sorry bout that.

[Newfoundking]

I could be wrong and have misinterpreted his writing, though I doubt it, he's generally intelligent enough to make logical decisions, and what I read looked very logical. Either way, what I said I read is my opinion on the matter

[skrunkdk]

Feel so sorry for the different families who's been victims in this tragedy, incrediable how this can keep going months after months. Even its innocent people in a cinema or a kindergarten, its so awful why this gotta hurt innocent people and kids so often as it is.

[Voodoo_Operator]

Well, yes, my point is that laws won't be able to change much to a culture that is deeply set in the American society. With that in mind, I don't think a few more laws would hurt, if only to prevent a few aberrations and dangerous behaviors (for example, restricting sales to kids- it's always a nonsense to me how you can get a gun before you get the right to vote, drink, buy smokes, drive and watch porn). I'm certainly not advocating a full ban, nor even a system as strict as Canada's (while I believe it is a fine system that usually works). I agree that stricter laws don't necessarily put an end to all gun violence. I remember a college shooting in Montreal a few years ago that resulted in one death (two with the shooter) - luckily, 2 police officers were already on campus for an unrelated incident and many more responded quickly and were able to corner the shooter, who took his own life. Hell, 3 months ago, a nutjob attempted to assassinate our provincial premier on election night. His gun jammed and he was quickly tackled by police and security, but unfortunately not before he killed a stagehand. In both cases, the shooters' guns were legally obtained and registered.


In the end, it all comes down to a matter of culture, and one's approach towards firearms and violence. Technically, almost every Canadian could legally own a firearm, yet very few of them actually do. So my point is, Americans should ask themselves: "Why do I need a gun? Why do I care so much about guns?"

[Christopher Morgans]

R.I.P to all of the victims of the shooting in Connecticut.

[Fred03]

So far I agree with most everything Voodoo has said. The time has long come to talk about gun control. True adopting the Canadian system or some parody of the same would not solve the problems not by a long shot. However we have to try. There are states where you can pretty much any weapon under the sun. Seeing pictures of people with Uzis and AR-15 worry me. Within 20 minutes of my house I can acquire an AR-15 and I don’t even live in the city. There is no reason to possess such weapons. There are people who should use these weapons they are called solders and they are fighting people with similar weapons. Owning a fully automatic weapon should be illegal and so should owning devices that can make weapons fully automatic. This will not help as much but if the guns were a little harder to get maybe these nutjobs would have to do their sprees with handguns or rifles and many more people would be left alive.

Also in response to the people who argue for the 2^nd amendment right meaning protection for any sort of weapon: The second amendment is for the arming of a militia, we have a militia now it is called the National Guard. The British are NOT coming! If the Iranians, Chinese or Brazilians decide to attack us I have faith in the US Army and National Guard. They do not need your help.

[JamesJackson]

R.I.P to all the little angels that were killed today. I dont understand what makes someone want to go and kill a bunch of kids who cant defend themsleves. Just think as the parent's of the kids go home tonight the have to walk in to their homes and ssee their kids room empty and see the present that were bought for them for Christmas that they will never see. I bet those parents are have a hard time right now and all my hearts and prayers will go out to the families effect by this monster of a man. I think in the USA you have the right to bare arms but nobody needs anything other than a hand gun to defend their homes.

R.I.P to all 27 people that died today you will be remebered.

[FInn Rescue 12]

I would like to express my despite sympathy to the parents and friends and all the victims of today's shooting tragedy. I have three children of my own and I could not fathom what the parents are going throw, victims or the first responders. The person who committed this heinous act was a emotionally disturbed person or just "pure F&^%$ evil" and he also had access to weapons, hand guns and assault rifles. We have to let the investigation take it's course and find out who,what, how, where, why, he was able to obtain those weapons and his mental capacity. This is a time for prayers and healing not arguments on gun control in the US.

[ZackBowden]

It was Newtown (Sandy Hook section). Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims. Seeing that I live in CT, it was like " Whoa, BOOM it seems like it's not happening, it's so unreal".

[112Espoo]

R.I.P

[TheCadetForce]

I was under the impression that fully automatic weapons were illegal in the states unless they had been made before a certain year? I also don't understand why somebody would go into a school and shoot a bunch of kids, they haven't done anything wrong nor does any parent deserve to have their child taken away from them in such a way.
Does anybody know what provoked this guy to do such a thing?
Anyway enough of the questions from me, R.I.P to all the lives lost in this tragic event and my thoughts are with the familys as they try to overcome their grief.

[TannerMusson]

This is so sad.